{"id":4943,"date":"2026-08-05T08:12:33","date_gmt":"2026-08-05T08:12:33","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/crosscountrymovingteams.com\/?p=4943"},"modified":"2026-08-05T08:12:33","modified_gmt":"2026-08-05T08:12:33","slug":"bill-ackman-unfiltered-the-billionaire-hedge-fund-founders-take-on-ai-investing-and-why-socialism-is-a-disaster","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/crosscountrymovingteams.com\/?p=4943","title":{"rendered":"Bill Ackman, unfiltered: The billionaire hedge fund founder\u2019s take on AI, investing, and why socialism is a \u2018disaster\u2019"},"content":{"rendered":"<div>\n<p>Bill managed a historic turnaround of his hedge fund, and today he\u2019s a leading voice on Wall Street who is worth over $8 billion.<\/p>\n<p>Read more <a href=\"https:\/\/crosscountrymovingteams.com\/?p=4941\">From Pochettino to MLS, the giants of American finance keep making big promises about the future of U.S. soccer<\/a><\/p>\n<p>He\u2019s also amassed a huge online presence with 2.7 million followers, where he candidly shares his sometimes very controversial beliefs on business, politics, and culture.<\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>In a new episode of<em> Fortune 500: Titans and Disruptors of Industry<\/em>, <em>Fortune\u2019<\/em>s Editor-in-Chief Alyson Shontell sat down with Pershing Square CEO Bill Ackman to discuss his approach to shareholder activism; his relationship with President Trump and outspoken views on politics and societal issues; and how he\u2019s thinking about AI, his new Brain Research Rehabilitation Institute, and the future of Pershing Square.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Why Ackman says rising speculation, from one-day options to sports betting, calls for caution, while AI-fueled growth at big tech companies still justifies today\u2019s valuations<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n<li>Why Ackman is buying Uber, Microsoft, Amazon, and Meta, betting they\u2019re cheap because investors are focused on chipmakers instead<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<ul>\n<li>How Ackman thinks about pricing SpaceX, Anthropic, and OpenAI, and why he worries about companies that need constant new capital to survive<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n<li>Why Ackman says his outspoken views on politics, DEI, and universities aren\u2019t calculated, just things he feels strongly about<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<ul>\n<li>Why Ackman believes capitalism creates jobs more efficiently than philanthropy, and how his new Brain Research Rehabilitation Institute mixes both models<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<ul>\n<li>How a $300 million personal loan from J.P. Morgan helped Ackman rebuild Pershing Square after the Valeant and Herbalife losses, and his history with Carl Icahn<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<ul>\n<li>Why Ackman credits a small, carefully chosen team and shared equity for the firm\u2019s low turnover<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n<li>Why Ackman thinks AI will transform education and healthcare by making expert-level intelligence available to everyone for free<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><em>Read the transcript, which has been lightly edited for length and clarity, below.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Of course.<\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<h2>On markets, AI, and his biggest bets<\/h2>\n<p>Markets are always interesting, but it seems like a particularly interesting time in history\u2014amid a couple of important wars at the same time, and major technological change. AI is the story of the moment, really the story of the next many years, in terms of the implications for business, for the economy, for companies, for employees. In terms of markets, there\u2019s a fair amount of speculation right now. On the negative side, you have the growth of one-day options, these kinds of leveraged ETFs, and all the money being spent betting on sports. Speculation is increasing, and that\u2019s a time to be a little more cautious.<\/p>\n<p>At the same time, if you look at market indices, people point out that multiples are higher. But the S&amp;P is a market-cap-weighted index, meaning the biggest companies have the biggest impact on valuations\u2014and the biggest companies today are amazing businesses with much higher growth trajectories than businesses of even a decade or two or three ago. So it\u2019s a different market today than one where you\u2019d look at average multiples. We\u2019re finding cheap stocks. In fact, some of the best\u2014what we call durable-growth\u2014companies in the world are available at prices we find compelling, because they\u2019re not at the cutting edge and not dead center on the demand for chips, memory, or even land and real estate for data centers.<\/p>\n<div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>I\u2019m less interested in the frontier itself\u2014intellectually, I\u2019m interested in frontier AI companies and models\u2014but we try to find businesses we can predict with a very high degree of confidence over time. That becomes harder when there\u2019s major technological change, but certain businesses have a market position that\u2019s very difficult to disrupt. Uber is an amazing business. Look at the cash-flow metrics, the growth, the earnings trajectory, the revenue growth\u2014even the mind share. When a company becomes a verb, that\u2019s a pretty good sign it\u2019s in a dominant position.<\/p>\n<p>But Uber stock is extremely cheap for a business of this quality. Why? Because people are nervous that Tesla\u2019s robotaxi is going to completely take over the autonomous-vehicle market and mobility overall. Uber is both a mobility company and a food-delivery business, and they\u2019re closing a transaction now that will make them even more dominant in that space. Our view is that you\u2019re going to want to open your Uber app to decide how you get from one place to another, rather than your Tesla app or your Waymo app or another self-driving company\u2019s app. You want a ride in the shortest time at the lowest cost, and you want a brand you can trust\u2014you don\u2019t want to put your information into a bunch of different apps and scroll through them. We think their position is very strong. We want to own a business at a price that meaningfully discounts the future. Microsoft, Meta, Amazon, and Uber are cheap today because everyone\u2019s eyes are drawn to Micron and some of the semiconductor companies instead.<\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>We think they\u2019re a big beneficiary. Autonomous driving will reduce the cost of getting from one place to another, and it will reduce insurance costs\u2014and that will drive more demand as the price comes down. I think learning to drive will become something people do as a hobby, for people who are interested in cars.<\/p>\n<div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>The way investors should think about any IPO is: does the price I\u2019m paying make sense in light of the future of the business? There\u2019s often a lot of hype and excitement around IPOs, and you have to be cautious about that. An IPO can be a way to become an investor early in a company\u2019s trajectory\u2014that\u2019s traditionally what an IPO has been. Once you get to a trillion dollars, the question becomes: are you really early in that trajectory?<\/p>\n<p>SpaceX is an amazing company. I\u2019m a big Elon fan\u2014I\u2019m a bit conflicted, since I indirectly became a SpaceX shareholder. I was an investor in X and in xAI, and a small investor in SpaceX, so I now have a decent-sized personal investment in the company. I don\u2019t invest personally in public companies, so I\u2019m stuck investing in private ones, which is fun and useful for seeing what\u2019s coming.<\/p>\n<p>The unfortunate thing is that when Amazon went public, it had a relatively tiny market cap, so public retail shareholders had the chance to make a fortune. It\u2019s harder to make a fortune starting from a trillion-and-a-half market cap. That said, SpaceX is going after massive markets. As a space company, they have an incredibly dominant advantage\u2014more uniquely positioned than almost any company in bringing large amounts of cargo to space at very low cost. Starlink is an amazing product; I use it myself. I actually have a Starlink kit that I sometimes take when I go fishing.<\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>It\u2019s amazing\u2014you can actually be productive on a flight now, and they\u2019re in a dominant position there too. I\u2019d say SpaceX is a little farther behind on AI, but from an infrastructure standpoint, no one builds infrastructure more quickly at lower cost than Elon Musk. It\u2019s an amazing business, though pricing it requires assumptions about the future, and I wouldn\u2019t bet against Elon.<\/p>\n<p>What\u2019s fascinating about Anthropic is I\u2019ve never seen a business grow this quickly. And apparently they\u2019re EBITDA-positive\u2014if true, that bodes very well, since they\u2019re growing that fast and doing it profitably. My question about OpenAI\u2014and I don\u2019t have any inside information, just what I read in Fortune or elsewhere\u2014is that their business model has them losing a lot of money and consuming a lot of capital, tens of billions and perhaps hundreds of billions over the next several years. I wonder how long markets will keep funding that.<\/p>\n<p>I think the single biggest risk in both private and public markets is investing in businesses where you keep having to put in more and more capital over time. I like businesses that may require a large amount of capital up front, but have a clear point where the lines cross and they become materially cash-flow positive. Look at Uber\u2014it burned enormous amounts of cash, and credit to Dara for what he\u2019s achieved since taking over the business, which now generates enormous capital. So yes, you can invest in a company that\u2019s losing money and burning cash, as long as there\u2019s a point where it turns cash-flow positive. At various times, markets are willing to let companies lose money for extended periods, and sometimes they wake up and decide they\u2019re not willing to do that anymore. That\u2019s the risk\u2014especially when the numbers get extremely large. That\u2019s the question I have about OpenAI, though again, I don\u2019t have the detail to know.<\/p>\n<div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<h2>On speaking his mind and his relationship with Trump<\/h2>\n<p>It\u2019s not strategic. I just get interested in an issue, or I come to some insight and think, \u201cWhy isn\u2019t everyone talking about this?\u201d There\u2019s often pushback, and I feel like I\u2019m in a somewhat unique position\u2014I\u2019m not going to lose my job, so I can say exactly what I think. Elon Musk will be remembered for many things, but his purchase of X and making it an open platform stands out. Some people hate it for that openness, but it\u2019s a place where you can share views broadly and hear the other side of the argument. I read the comments.<\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>Yeah. The ad hominem ones I don\u2019t spend much time on, but if someone thinks I\u2019m wrong, that\u2019s how I learn. Going back to your point about boards\u2014I\u2019ve always wanted people who would tell me I\u2019m wrong, and it\u2019s the same at Pershing. We have an environment of extreme candor, and you want people willing to challenge accepted norms\u2014like the kid who says the emperor has no clothes. On some of these issues, what might have started as a well-intended idea\u2014DEI being one\u2014actually increased racism, in my view, and led to discrimination and things that weren\u2019t legal or in the country\u2019s best interests, and no one was talking about it.<\/p>\n<div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>What\u2019s interesting is when I walk down the street, including today, someone thanks me almost every day. It\u2019s rare that I get the opposite, but yes, some people don\u2019t like me, and many disagree\u2014that\u2019s okay. I\u2019m focused on what I believe is the truth, and I\u2019m happy to hear your argument if you think I\u2019m wrong. I\u2019ll course-correct if you convince me.<\/p>\n<p>I have an excellent relationship with the president, partly because I always tell him the truth. When you\u2019re in his role, you can find yourself surrounded by people who tell you what you want to hear, and I think he respects people who tell him the truth. He\u2019s made some mistakes, like all of us, but I think he\u2019s generally done a very good job\u2014even on things where he\u2019s going to get enormous criticism from half the country no matter what. I think the execution of the Iran operation has been, if you look at each of those military operations, some of the best-executed I\u2019ve seen under any presidency.<\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>One of our biggest challenges as a country is that almost half the country isn\u2019t participating in the growth in value created by capitalism\u2014the stock market. Either they don\u2019t have 401(k) plans or they don\u2019t own stocks, and you\u2019ve seen a move toward publicly pronounced socialist candidates winning things like the New York City mayoralty. Part of that is people feeling left behind\u2014wages can\u2019t compound as quickly as stocks, so everyone needs to participate in the market to believe in capitalism.<\/p>\n<p>A number of years ago, I came up with the idea that every baby in America should have $6,500 in an account that compounds into a million dollars.<\/p>\n<p>Yes, and the president has basically done that with the Trump baby accounts, and now there\u2019s the Trump savings plan.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>I didn\u2019t talk to him about the baby accounts, but I did pitch him on what\u2019s now the Trump savings plan, which I think will be very important. It\u2019s basically a 401(k) for every American. If you\u2019re an Uber driver or restaurant worker whose company doesn\u2019t offer a 401(k) or other tax-exempt plan, you can now set one up easily, and the government will provide a match. Australia and even Mexico have pension systems requiring people to set aside a meaningful percentage of their earnings into an account that compounds for retirement. The average Australian now has multiples of the savings of the average American because of that power of compounding, which solves a lot of problems. We need to get every American saving from birth. Some people say, \u201cI\u2019m not going to open a Trump account because I don\u2019t like the name\u201d\u2014that\u2019s stupid. Overall, I think he\u2019s done some very good things there.<\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>Then you put aside less money\u2014there\u2019s a $1,000 match to start. But you have to start saving for retirement somehow. If Mexico can do it with much lower wages and an even bigger required percentage, we can do it here.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<h2>On capitalism, inequality, and philanthropy<\/h2>\n<p>Let\u2019s use New York City as a microcosm, starting with the cost of housing. It\u2019s so high because left-wing mayors have made it very difficult for developers to build here, and Mamdani, by freezing rents, is just going to make the problem worse. In many New York City buildings, roughly half the tenants are in rent-stabilized apartments with frozen rent, and the other half are at market rate. So landlords raise rents on the free-market half to generate enough cash flow to cover their interest expense. That\u2019s bad policy contributing to the affordability problem.<\/p>\n<p>Why are energy costs so high in New York State? Because we\u2019ve shut down nuclear power, it takes 15 years to get a pipeline approved, and we\u2019ve banned fracking\u2014so we\u2019re importing natural gas from Pennsylvania. That\u2019s just bad policy, and we can fix a lot of it with better policy. Look at Florida\u2014an incredibly well-managed state that recently voted to eliminate real estate taxes, purely through good policy. Or Austin, where rents have come down significantly because it\u2019s easy to build. If you make it hard to build where people want to live, and you don\u2019t let landlords recover renovation costs, they\u2019ll pull units off the market. That\u2019s what happened in New York\u2014about 60,000 units are off the market because renovation costs can\u2019t be recovered under rent regulations.<\/p>\n<p>You want people like Ken Griffin locating Citadel here\u2014spending $250 million on an apartment, because that purchase makes a building economically viable, which creates construction jobs and brings in wealthy residents who pay taxes. The system can work well. You want the top earners\u2014who are a small share of the population\u2014paying a large share of taxes; something like the top 10% generate 70% of tax revenue. That\u2019s not particularly unfair. But you don\u2019t want to discourage people like Elon Musk from locating their businesses here. Look at what\u2019s happening in California right now with the wealth tax\u2014they say it\u2019s \u201cone time,\u201d but it\u2019s never one time. Income taxes started out small too and only applied to a few people.<\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>That\u2019s a certainty. We have two big problems: enormous waste and fraud in government, and bad economic and tax policy. There are plenty of things about tax policy that could be fixed, but the answer isn\u2019t socialism\u2014socialism is a disaster. Watch what happens to New York City if Mamdani succeeds in implementing these plans.<\/p>\n<p>You don\u2019t have to worry about Pershing Square employees\u2014we run a very profitable business with a small team, though our impact goes well beyond our 40-some employees because we\u2019re major shareholders in a number of large companies. I\u2019ve spent a fair amount of time on philanthropy, and it\u2019s vastly less efficient at solving problems than capitalism. You create far more jobs through capitalism than through philanthropy. Businesses that use other people\u2019s money without best-in-class governance and oversight can end badly\u2014and that describes many nonprofits. They often lack the discipline of a for-profit enterprise, making it harder to hire the best people; there are no equity incentives and no market pressure or M&amp;A activity to keep them sharp. So you have to be careful with philanthropy\u2014you can waste a lot of money, and organizations can get taken over and become political vehicles instead of sticking to their original mission.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>Our big new initiative is what we\u2019re calling the Brain Research Rehabilitation Institute. It\u2019s funded initially with nonprofit capital but will have for-profit elements, focused on brain-related longevity and relief issues. That research should lead to devices, molecules, and techniques that become the basis for businesses delivering that technology to patients over time. The goal is to use philanthropic capital to build something sustainable using for-profit, capitalist principles\u2014without people having to make an economic sacrifice to work here at what we\u2019re calling the AOI. We\u2019re going to share the equity value created by these spinout businesses broadly with the people who work at the institute, the same way we\u2019ve done at Pershing Square.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>I\u2019m hoping this captures the best of the nonprofit model\u2014there are things you can achieve as a nonprofit, like hiring certain people or partnering with institutions that will only work with nonprofits, that would be harder as a for-profit. I\u2019ve learned a lot over 20 years of philanthropy about what works and what doesn\u2019t, and I\u2019m sure there\u2019s more to learn. The goal is to focus on gaps in the capital markets\u2014problems without a for-profit solution yet\u2014and there hasn\u2019t been enough investment in helping people deal with traumatic brain injuries or strokes. I\u2019ve been very close to that issue over the past six months or so.<\/p>\n<p>Buffett says diversification is protection against ignorance, and our Pershing Square Foundation was extremely diversified in its earlier years. More recently we\u2019ve focused on scientific research, because that\u2019s an area with a real gap in the capital markets\u2014there\u2019s venture money for healthcare startups, but a lot of basic science research is too far from revenue or a company to attract venture funding. So it has to be government-funded or philanthropic. We\u2019ve built a couple of scientific advisory boards and learned a fair amount, both good and bad, which we\u2019re applying to this new institute. In fact, we just closed today on the building that will house it.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>Thanks.<\/p>\n<p>No foot, yes.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>My parents played a very important role\u2014I don\u2019t want to undersell my mom. She was an activist. I grew up in Chappaqua, New York, where diesel locomotives from the 1950s took my dad back and forth to work. We weren\u2019t allowed to start dinner until Dad got home, and often that was after 8 p.m. because the train was delayed. My mom ended up joining a grassroots organization called the Upper Harlem Line Commuter Council, eventually becoming its head. She ran a petition drive, and they got the railroad redone, which massively cut Dad\u2019s commute. So I saw activism at work early on\u2014I even helped count the signatures on that petition drive before Mom delivered them to Albany. That was a significant moment.<\/p>\n<p>Dad was in the real estate mortgage brokerage business\u2014an \u201ceat what you kill\u201d business. I watched him have some very successful years, and also a couple of years without making much money, though I wasn\u2019t closely aware of that at the time. He was big on the idea that I needed to stand on my own two feet, so I never got an allowance. If I wanted money, I had to start a business. I had a little car-waxing business, did lawn care, tree care, ditch digging\u2014various projects.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>Yeah.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>I was always a super-motivated kid. My sister went to Harvard a year ahead of me, so I decided that was the best school. I did well academically, stayed involved in sports and clubs, and I guess I wrote a decent essay\u2014getting into a good school clearly helped. One early formative experience was at Harvard, where I took a job at Harvard Student Agencies selling advertising for the Let\u2019s Go travel guides\u2014a series of books where Harvard students wrote reviews of hotels around the world. It was a commission-based business, and I turned out to be a good salesman\u2014I made $14,000, which felt like a huge amount of money.<\/p>\n<p>Then I went to work for my father, which I wasn\u2019t especially excited about. I liked real estate a lot, but not the service side of the business\u2014I found the entrepreneurs and developers on the other side of the phone more interesting, and I decided I wanted to be an investor. My dad introduced me to a man named Leonard Marks, who recommended \u201cThe Intelligent Investor\u201d by Ben Graham. That led me to Warren Buffett. I went to business school to learn how to be an investor and just followed that path\u2014fortunate to find something I was excited about. I did a lot of reading, and the first stock I ever bought went up. If it had gone down, maybe I\u2019d have done something else.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<h2>On his rise, from cold calls to Pershing Square<\/h2>\n<p>It wasn\u2019t necessarily billionaires back then\u2014you needed something like a $400 million net worth to make the list.<\/p>\n<p>Yes\u2014four of the six investors we landed were on that list. I figured if I wanted to raise $10 million, with a $3 million minimum, why not go to the richest people in the world and ask for a relatively small amount of money?<\/p>\n<p>Read more <a href=\"https:\/\/crosscountrymovingteams.com\/?p=4939\">Trump\u2019s tariffs were supposed to boost American manufacturing, but the new levies are actually pushing some companies back to China<\/a><\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>That was the theory\u2014a crazy idea, but probably nobody had tried it before. Really successful, entrepreneurial people tend to admire entrepreneurship in young people; it makes sense. So we knocked on a lot of doors and got a huge amount of rejection\u2014probably 95 or 96% of people turned us down. But five or six people gave us the $3 million to start the business.<\/p>\n<p>David Berkowitz and I started Gotham Partners with no experience, and we learned a lot\u2014some things we did well, some we got wrong. One mistake: five years in, we expanded the mandate to include private assets, and mixing private assets into a hedge fund where investors can redeem capital creates a lot of complexity, even with mechanisms like side pockets. So at Pershing Square, I made sure we don\u2019t make private investments.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>I had the benefit of doing this a second time. Part of why Pershing Square has been successful is the case I made when raising money for its launch\u2014that I was the most experienced hedge fund manager in America at age 37, having already started a fund, had a lot of success, and made some mistakes. That was part of my pitch. I think one thing I\u2019ve been good at, over the course of my life, is learning from my mistakes. A lot of people don\u2019t want to talk about their mistakes\u2014they want to push them aside. At Pershing Square, we study them and treasure them, because there isn\u2019t a businessperson alive who hasn\u2019t made meaningful mistakes or faced significant setbacks. It\u2019s how you deal with the setbacks and learn from the mistakes that improves your odds of long-term success.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>Yes\u2014Joe Steinberg, of Leucadia National, gave me that $50 million. That was the difference between launching and not launching, and it wasn\u2019t just the money. Ian Cumming\u2014who\u2019s since passed away\u2014and Joe Steinberg, still one of the most respected investors around, gave us their endorsement as a brand-name investor group, which obviously helped us get off the ground.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>The most important thing, initially, is that the underlying business is good\u2014ideally great. In each case you mentioned, an otherwise great business had fallen on hard times, and we were in a unique position to help address its problems.<\/p>\n<p>The world has changed in terms of how receptive companies are to ideas that didn\u2019t originate in the boardroom or from management. When I entered this business, boards had a \u201cnot invented here\u201d attitude and didn\u2019t want to hear outside ideas. I think shareholder activism, broadly, has helped restore the balance of power between owners and the managers and boards who oversee them.<\/p>\n<p>In many of our biggest opportunities, shareholders had essentially given up on management. With General Growth, the stock was down 99.5%, the company had debt it couldn\u2019t refinance, and in every other public bankruptcy of that scale, shareholders lost everything. We bought from people selling because they rationally believed this would be no different\u2014we bought 25% of the company. I got on the board, though it wasn\u2019t easy; Goldman Sachs actually advised against it. We led a restructuring where all creditors got their money back, principal plus accrued interest.<\/p>\n<p>Chipotle was a food-safety crisis, and management was struggling to handle it. We bought 10%, were invited onto the board, convinced then-CEO Steve Ells to step up to chairman, and recruited Brian Niccol\u2014a great CEO. A big part of our success has come from stocks beaten down because management screwed up or something bad happened, letting us come in and change management, strategy, cost structure, or capital structure.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>More recently, we\u2019ve made a lot of money in cases where the market overreacted to something with only a short-term impact. As markets have become more short-term-focused, stocks can drop dramatically, creating opportunities for us. We took a big stake in Hilton when the market reacted to negative macro conditions\u2014Hilton, run by Chris Nassetta, is the dominant company in the hotel industry, arguably with the best operator around, but the stock was still cheap because of short-termism. Similarly, we\u2019re buying Microsoft at what we believe is a very attractive price, and Amazon\u2014one of the most dominant retailers and cloud companies in the world\u2014got hammered when the president introduced tariffs.<\/p>\n<p>Market volatility creates opportunities not just for investors like us but for retail investors too, as long as they\u2019re setting aside enough to live on. They can hold permanent capital\u2014money they\u2019ve committed to markets that no one can pull out from under them\u2014and buy when others are selling. Again: you don\u2019t want to be a lemming in markets. You want to be the person looking the other way. Sometimes it does make sense to run, but you should reassess the facts and make an emotionally independent decision.<\/p>\n<p>You want some people who truly understand the industry, though you don\u2019t want a railroad company\u2019s board made up entirely of railroad executives, since they\u2019ll constantly second-guess the CEO\u2014some domain expertise is good, but not too much. Most importantly, you want people willing to speak the truth directly to the CEO, without worrying about whether they\u2019ll keep their board seat. I\u2019ve seen plenty of examples of people who\u2019ll say things outside the boardroom but won\u2019t challenge the CEO in the room, because their career depends on staying on boards, and they know the CEO will be asked for a reference before their next board appointment. A bad CEO will say a good director is one who never challenges anything.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>What you really want is people who will challenge you and have skin in the game. On the Pershing Square board, we have five independent directors, chosen because we trust they\u2019ll tell us what they actually believe, and all of them are meaningful shareholders in the company. So: skin in the game, good experience, good judgment, intelligence, character\u2014but most importantly, they can\u2019t be shy.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>Pershing Square is an asset-management business\u2014some call it alternative asset management. One of the companies we took public is Pershing Square, Inc., the money-management business itself, which has pretty unique attributes compared with other asset managers: effectively 98% of our capital is in public companies where we\u2019re often the largest shareholder, including our own employees. That gives us what Mr. Buffett would call permanent capital. Berkshire is a corporation\u2014when people want their money out, they sell Berkshire shares, but the capital stays in the enterprise, and Buffett has done a remarkable job investing it over time.<\/p>\n<p>The business of asset management often conflicts with the business of investing\u2014an interesting paradox. Many times the best moment to invest is exactly when people want their money out of the market. If you go back to caveman days, when everyone ran in one direction, you probably should run too, because something bad was coming\u2014the herd mentality saved lives. In markets, herd mentality costs you money. So you want to look in the opposite direction of the herd, but that\u2019s hard if the capital you manage can be redeemed whenever the herd runs a certain way.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>We\u2019ve built our business model around capital that can\u2019t leave the system, which gives us an advantage. Most hedge fund capital today is very short-term. Think about the well-known multi-strategy \u201cpod shops\u201d\u2014Citadel, Millennium\u2014they make a lot of money, but by betting on a stock\u2019s price over the next 90 days, not on an enterprise\u2019s future over the next decade. That\u2019s not that interesting to me. We like helping companies become more successful over many years, which requires assets that match liabilities.<\/p>\n<p>Why take the management company public? I want the business to exist well beyond me\u2014the public markets increase the likelihood that a business survives for the very long term. It wasn\u2019t a liquidity event; no employee received cash as part of it, and I actually invested more in the IPO after the stock started trading. We structured it so the business has a higher likelihood of enduring indefinitely, and we did it at a valuation with plenty of room for growth, unlike a trillion-dollar valuation.<\/p>\n<p>The other company we took public was another permanent-capital vehicle, Pershing Square USA. Our failure so far is not doing a good job telling the world about it\u2014I\u2019d argue it\u2019s one of the best opportunities in the hedge fund space: a liquid hedge fund with an excellent 19% compounded record over 22 years, charging the lowest fees of any hedge fund in the world (2%, versus the typical 2%-plus-20%-of-profits). As a result of not marketing it well yet\u2014though that\u2019s about to change\u2014it trades at more than a 20% discount to the underlying value of its assets.<\/p>\n<p>If you like Uber today at $71 a share, you\u2019d like it more at a 20% discount, which you can effectively get through this vehicle. We\u2019re announcing earnings in mid-August and will walk people through the portfolio and our logic then. The thesis behind doing both IPOs together was to give people an incentive to invest in this new permanent-capital vehicle\u2014we gave them, for free, a piece of the management company.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>Everything was going along well in the business, but we made a large passive investment in a company called Valeant Pharmaceuticals. We\u2019d always avoided healthcare and pharmaceuticals as a firm, but we knew this management team from a previous, profitable transaction and had built confidence in them. It turned into a disastrous investment\u2014questionable business practices emerged, and the business itself wasn\u2019t sufficiently robust; it used too much leverage. We were a passive shareholder, but I made the decision to join the board to try to fix the problem. The right answer probably would have been to sell. By joining the board, the problem became ours to own.<\/p>\n<p>Investors didn\u2019t pull their money immediately, but after about 18 months of still dealing with that problem, plus the Herbalife short, people started redeeming capital. As I said earlier, a manager is only as good as his investors\u2014once they start heading for the hills, there\u2019s a bit of a lemming effect. Nobody wants to be the last one standing, so you end up in something like a bank run, forced to sell assets. People expect you to be selling, which hurts your stock and your performance\u2014not quite a death spiral, but close, especially for a concentrated manager.<\/p>\n<p>About a third of our capital was in our permanent-capital vehicle, Pershing Square Holdings\u2014roughly $4 billion, even after being down about 30% at the bottom. I told the team: if all our open-ended fund capital leaves, we\u2019ll have 100% permanent capital, which is actually a better base to rebuild from. But it\u2019s only truly permanent if you own enough of the stock\u2014public status alone doesn\u2019t guarantee it. So I decided to borrow money.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>I borrowed $300 million\u2014the biggest unsecured personal loan JPMorgan had ever made to an individual, as far as I know. I used that, plus some capital I pulled from the hedge fund, to buy enough of a stake in our public vehicle to lock in permanent capital. I told the team we were better positioned than at any point in our history, because we finally had the holy grail: permanent capital. All we needed to do was stick to our core principles, work hard, and compound our way out of the mess\u2014while treating all our investors fairly. Anyone who wanted their money back could have it.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>A hundred percent\u2014and it was true. At our peak we had about $18 billion in capital; after returning money to redeeming investors, we were down to $4 billion, and that was the bottom. We\u2019ve since had the best eight years in our history, running the business far more efficiently because we didn\u2019t need armies of people constantly raising money\u2014a huge distraction for most people in this industry. John Gray is an amazing CEO at Blackstone, a great investor, but he spends an enormous amount of time meeting with investors. Buffett got out of the business of managing outside hedge fund money partly because he didn\u2019t want to be in investor relations all day. That was a critical turning point for us.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>Personally, I got through it with a simple mantra: make a little progress every day. At the bottom, it feels like you\u2019ll never get out, and progress doesn\u2019t show up quickly. But daily compounding adds up\u2014a very small slope at first that eventually goes vertical. That\u2019s true in your personal life and your business life alike, as long as you make a little progress every day.<\/p>\n<p>I wouldn\u2019t blame all of that on Carl. Pershing was never really in the business of shorting stocks\u2014we made a bet against Herbalife using credit default swaps, a much better instrument, because we believed we could prove it was a pyramid scheme and that regulators would investigate. Carl took the other side of the trade and bought about a billion dollars of stock.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>I told him those were the only two appropriate words. We\u2019d had other dealings where we were on the winning side\u2014he didn\u2019t keep his word, we had to sue him, and we won after eight years. Afterward he said, \u201cNow we can be friends,\u201d and I used that phrase, which apparently upset him. So there was some lingering tension. When we took a big short position in Herbalife, he knew nothing about the company but figured he\u2019d buy a bunch of stock and force a short squeeze\u2014which he ultimately succeeded in doing. When the Valeant situation hit, that added more pressure, on top of being short a stock with Carl aggressively on the other side. Challenging days.<\/p>\n<p>We have\u2014we hugged it out, so to speak, a while back. Still not my first choice as a business partner, though.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>It\u2019s not really a values chart\u2014we\u2019ve always kept to our values. It\u2019s more an investment checklist: things we will do, and things we won\u2019t. It\u2019s mostly about business quality\u2014the characteristics we look for, and the things we avoid. Checklists are genuinely useful in life.<\/p>\n<h2>On Pershing Square\u2019s culture and what\u2019s next<\/h2>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>I\u2019m a big believer in being in the office\u2014five days a week, ten months of the year. In summer, the investment team relocates together out east, in Bridgehampton. The rest of the firm has a choice to come in or work from home, unless something important requires everyone together.<\/p>\n<p>Culture really starts with who you recruit\u2014I\u2019m a big believer in hiring only people of the highest character, people you actually want to spend time with, since you\u2019ll likely see your colleagues more than your own family during the week. There are plenty of super-talented people, but combining talent with great character is the foundation of a great culture. We\u2019re very careful about who we bring in, and we take a long-term approach to compensation, unlike the typical hedge fund\u2019s short-term, \u201ceat what you kill\u201d model with individual P&amp;Ls. Here, compensation is always based on how the overall portfolio performs\u2014there are no individual P&amp;Ls.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>I\u2019ve repeated often that this firm isn\u2019t successful unless everyone\u2014from the people at the front desk to Isabel, who cleans the space, to accounting, finance, technology, and legal\u2014feels like an important contributor. It\u2019s like a finely tuned watch: if any part breaks, it stops. I think everyone here accurately feels like a big contributor to our success, which lets us accomplish an enormous amount. Most firms managing $35 billion don\u2019t run with just 48 people, especially since we do accounting in-house for multiple public companies\u2014something that might require a 40-person team elsewhere.<\/p>\n<p>When we went public, everyone here became a shareholder\u2014there isn\u2019t a person at Pershing Square who doesn\u2019t own multiple millions of dollars in stock, whether they\u2019re at the front desk or in another role. We take care of our people, including their health\u2014from how we filter the air, to the food in our cafe, to gym access and healthcare. Because of that, people don\u2019t think about leaving. In the last decade, we haven\u2019t had a single undesired departure from the firm, which is very unusual in this industry.<\/p>\n<p>That was an offhand comment to my dad, but it\u2019s still very helpful to set targets in life. Now I\u2019m focused on longevity\u2014staying healthy, no sugar, close to zero alcohol. I want to be around for my family; I have a seven-year-old daughter, so when I\u2019m 80, she\u2019ll be 27. You want to be around a long time, and it helps your impact and your investing too. Buffett is one of the greatest investors of all time partly because he\u2019s done a good job\u2014and partly because he\u2019s lived a long time and stayed at it.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>This is an era where you can learn anything\u2014you don\u2019t even need to read books anymore. You can ask AI to teach you whatever you need to learn. I think education and healthcare are the two obvious sectors that AI will transform. There\u2019s arguably no better doctor today than a frontier AI model. A friend of mine had a father with a symptom the hospital couldn\u2019t diagnose, and things were heading toward a bad outcome. He put everything into ChatGPT, which suggested an infectious disease\u2014and that turned out to be the answer. I\u2019d go there first; it\u2019s cheaper and easier than seeing a doctor.<\/p>\n<p>I think the model comes down to how much intelligence you get per token, or per dollar of investment, and what you can do with that intelligence. The challenge for frontier labs is that, as we\u2019ve seen in just the last few days, a Chinese model\u2014Kimi\u2014is near the frontier and open-weight, rather than closed. I think that\u2019s a positive thing for humanity: as more low-cost models become available, the cost of intelligence keeps falling, and we\u2019re heading toward a world where superintelligence is available to everyone.<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>That\u2019s a genuinely interesting world. The absolute frontier will still be expensive, maybe affordable only to big corporations, but for most things people need\u2014where to go on vacation, questions about an upcoming medical procedure\u2014you won\u2019t need the absolute frontier. Those can already be answered essentially for free; you go to a chatbot and get a very good answer. We\u2019re heading toward a world where a very high level of intelligence is basically free. It\u2019s a pretty amazing world.<\/p>\n<p>Read more <a href=\"https:\/\/crosscountrymovingteams.com\/?p=4937\">\u2018Baffling\u2019: White House won\u2019t publicly release AI model evaluation framework it reviewed today with OpenAI, Anthropic, Microsoft and others<\/a><\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p>Thank you. I really enjoyed it.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&#8216;I&#8217;m in a bit of a unique position where I can say exactly what I think,&#8217; Ackman tells Fortune.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":4942,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[286],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4943","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-fortune-500-titans-and-disruptors-of-industry"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.7 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Bill Ackman, unfiltered: The billionaire hedge fund founder\u2019s take on AI, investing, and why socialism is a \u2018disaster\u2019 - Cross Country Moving Team<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/crosscountrymovingteams.com\/?p=4943\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Bill Ackman, unfiltered: The billionaire hedge fund founder\u2019s take on AI, investing, and why socialism is a \u2018disaster\u2019 - 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